Interview with Kristijan Glibo – CEO & Founder of Beyondi

Interview with Kristijan Glibo – CEO & Founder of Beyondi

Interviewed by Roman Berginc – All About Crypto

R: Hi and welcome everyone to our Blockchainsation interview series.

I'm Roman from All About Crypto and we are preparing Blockchain and Crypto conference in May 2021.

It will be the biggest conference in the region and it will happen in Laško, Slovenia from 14th 'til 16th of May.

I'm here today with our Blockchainsation partner Beyondi. In fact, founder and CEO of Beyondi, Kristijan Glibo.

Hi Kristijan and thank you for taking your time and joining us in this interview. We are very happy to have you here.

K: Hi, Roman. Thank you for the introduction and I'm really grateful and thankful to be a part of the Blockchainsation conference, that I will be able to share some experience and knowledge which we had in the past 3 years working with blockchain and all the great technologies and use cases.

R: Well great!

You're the CEO and founder of a software development company named Beyondi. As I see Beyondi is one of the leading development companies in the field of blockchain development at least in Croatia if not even wider.

Can you tell us a little bit more about yourself and about the company and how you started or maybe even pinpoint some of the biggest achievements you had?

K: Ok. So basically, I started the company by myself in 2015 when we started working a lot with Australia and developing custom software applications in the web and mobile development field.

Mostly startups and in some situations, we had some corporate products to develop for specific needs.

In that particular time, I actually started to research Bitcoin whitepaper and together with my colleagues and my professor from college.

That was actually the first time when I heard about cryptocurrencies and blockchain as a technology, but we continued just to doing some basic research and understanding what's going on there.

During that particular time, we had a lot of... Allot of actually great deals and great projects. One of our projects actually gets funded in Australia from the investors.

For me myself I started to do a lot of R&D in the blockchain field and then one of the biggest. Actually for me, our biggest achievements in 2000 and. I think it was 2018 when we actually got a deal with Alcatel-Lucent Enterprise from Stuttgart Hackaton to work on some pilot projects in telecommunication and blockchain together.

So the story started when I saw the Hyperledger Fabric from IBM as I was thinking, there will be a lot of opportunities in the cryptocurrency field, but if you look from the regulation perspective and compliance perspective we will need first to adapt that and then go into some deeper filed.

Yes. Blockchain is currently the biggest... The biggest market cap is in finance and insurance at the moment, but I think that great technology will be actually very well used in industry 4.0 which is actually my main goal to strike in the future.

From the point of achievements in the blockchain area in the last 3 years like I said we got a lot of R&D connections. We got a strong partnership network and we started working with the Croatian Ministry of agriculture for sampling the food and taking the samples from the food and creating a decentralized network of traceability like a reference point for other information systems where they can find the information to which they can trust because there is a lot of issues in those kinds of business processes.

And Actually the last two days I was talking about having a call with. I had a call with my colleague from that project and we are actually invited by EFSA which is the European Food Safety Association. A roof institution for the whole EU, to present the pilot project on the blockchain, and how we solved the problem with traceability.

So for me, that is actually the biggest achievement, because things like that will actually move the blockchain into a really mainstream area. And besides that, we are developing at the moment a crypto wallet for one privacy blockchain which will be announced and released very soon. I think Q1 2021.

We created 2 fintech applications which are mostly as mobile stuff also on the blockchain and at the moment at Beyondi we are creating our own platform to manage the blockchain infrastructure and smart contracts on Hyperledger Fabric.

So that's what we are doing right now and most of the projects are actually on the blockchain.

R: Well great. So most of the activities are on blockchain, but you also have some other projects that are not related to blockchain and what is let's say the percentage in the last 2 to 3 years of the projects that are related to blockchain and the projects that are not? And is this percentage increasing or decreasing?

K: So I would say that before 3 years we started at 50 – 50 you know. We invested a lot of resources in R&D and doing on blockchain and showing and going with partners all around and win the pilots. We actually did 5 pilot projects for our clients in a blockchain in that particular era.

But the thing is that besides that yes, we are doing a lot of for example IoT, mobile development, web development. We are really good in embedded systems, very, very good at creating corporate enterprise applications. One of which we did is for Croatian archive to archive all the documents in a digital way.

And like I said, those kinds of projects are actually good for us to onboard new developers, etc, but in a manner of the percentage we definitely now have 70-30, even maybe 80-20 blockchain projects in compare to let's say "normal" projects.

If some deals which I'm doing at the moment are striked and finished we are definitely able to be 100% blockchain company because we already won or let's say we are in the 4th phase, but it will be officially announced very, very soon, that we get funding for our European project. Researcheonal project where we are actually funded from the European Union to do... It’s called like IRI2, something like that I think.

And they funded our idea for the project, so basically, that will come. We are in negotiation with one Swiss company. If we strike that, we will definitely then have like 100% blockchain projects and blockchain only.

Ok, they will have the parts of APIs, mobiles, webs, etc. but the whole infrastructure will be 100% blockchain-based.

R: Well that's great to hear and to have a company that is able to live only from blockchain projects is very good, so we know where this train is going. I really like your slogan if I can say it like that: When we understand your Why, we do How and What. So I'm a software developer and project lead myself and I know that having only technical skills and knowledge does not lead to successful and useful solutions and understanding the needs of the customer and their business processes is essential for a successful project I would say. In connection to that, also gaining the trust of the customer can be done in a way that you constantly develop, not only develop, but deploy also the partial solutions, so the customer can see the progress of the project, but that, of course, brings also the other part which are new ideas in the project. This is of course good for the project, but if the project is fixed price, it can bring you to an unpleasant situation where you need to evaluate. How do you do that? Do you evaluate every specific adjustment and estimate it separately or do you have some other approach for that?

K: Ok. In most situations... Definitely, I first need to say that I agree with you when you said that development is not just the project. You will not achieve great success only with development. I had that situation where we had like the greatest technical staff, but without communication, we almost failed.

The thing is that, what people do not understand... There is a difference. I call it pure coding and what we need to deliver. And in most situations, developers are oriented on left. They like to code. They enjoy that. You need to have. The first thing which you need to do, you need to have a great balance between what they like and what the client needs.

Once when I clear that, I go to the client and me setup really brief project charter, and there is an explanation of what is in scope, what is out of the scope, how they can announce new functionality requirements, etc.

And on top of that, I create a communication strategy. How we need to talk during the project, which then helps me to understand, if they may be misunderstood some of the functionalities and if there is maybe a request in the future where we will need to change that.

That's how I try to address the client's thinking. But on the other hand, I don't develop products. Not like. I think I did it maybe in a year or two when I started until I didn't figure out that you need always to go one abstraction layer beneath the product.

And if you go there and if you develop the application in that particular way, then you will always be able to change some functionalities in a really quick way and that. Let's say, I use that as my Ace from the. How do they say… "As iz rukava" ("Ace from the sleeve").

Ok. So I use that as an advantage, because the client then says, ok, this guy is giving me something pro-bono and they didn't mess up with me. They just want to finish the project. They're on my side. We are not like a client agency. We are more like a team. Because I like team augmentation. That is the perfect way of how to describe my company.

We always go inside and say ok, look, we will take care of this. Just tell us what you want. Don't worry about it. So that helps me allot, but when I had a situation like they need to pay something additional because the client really didn't understand what he wants and when we started we figured out too late, then I just go clear and direct to him and explain to him where we need to deduct something. For example; Listen, if you want to change this, Ok, but let's then for the first version remove this functionality, because this is more important to you obviously.

And that in most situations they like the approach, because, what I figured out when I was doing the projects for Australia, and I did a lot. I did like 40+ startups in all fields. Agriculture, healthcare, insurance, entertainment industry, wedding organization, etc.

All the platform stuff, applications, digitalized everything. Do you know where they failed? They failed because they wanted all. That's why they failed. They failed because they wanted all. And that's the problem with most of the clients. They do not understand the lifecycle of the application.

I like to say it: when we are developing, it's like a child in the womb, and after 9 months you get the child, but it doesn't have anything installed in it. You need to learn him. That's the same with the application. Once when we release it, people will start using it and then you will know, did you get it done or you get it completely wrong. Users are no. 1. Application needs to be created around users.

And that's where most people and most companies actually failed in my experience, what I have in there. Those guys who started lean; who addressed something, what we want quick, what we want fast to market, early adapting, specific solution, they strive. They strive and they are active still today.

So basically I try always to tell companies, do not rush. Let's do like... Let's separate. Let's see, what's the best. Let's release that, and then we will while we are getting the feedback, we will develop all these functionalities which you want. But when you approach them like that you always have more control to remove the functionalities, add more functionalities, or maybe push the functionalities in the later phase of release, etc.

People must understand that if you want to have great project management, the project manager needs to be a developer with business skills. I'm doing in my company project management and I know what's that.

In that particular manner, you can strike whatever kind of project you want, because if I don't know something, give me 2 days and I will come back, and I will give you the solution. The project manager in that particular case needs to go to the developer, who is already like, you know - don't like project managers and he needs to talk with him. Who knows how will he understand it etc., and then he will come to the client. Too much noise in between.

What I learned from the blockchain field, you don't go with the non-technical clients on a meeting, on the conversation. You go directly with engineers. You go directly with PHDs. They know what they're talking about.

How you can put someone like "I'm the project manager" and he doesn't know anything about blockchain or whatever. So, blockchain is changing the stuff definitely. That's why I actually like that. There is no (sorry for my language) bullshitting in the blockchain. If you know, you will get it. If you don't know you will never get close. Blockchain needs a lot of work, a lot of education, a lot of how to say... – you need to have a vision that this peak time will come in 5 to 10 years.

Not now. Not today. Not tomorrow. In 5 – 10 is the peak time of this technology. The guys that are doing that just for money will go away. The guys who love technology will become the real players later.

That's what I can say about handling the projects and everything. Trying to make some parallel. I think I did it well. Maybe.

R: You described it really good and I agree with everything you said. Definitely, I think that the project manager should be a developer. Because if I'm a developer and I go to the client and I understand what he's talking about, I'm able to transfer this knowledge that I gained at the client to other d3velopers. If I'm not a developer, then I just have a list of wishes which are maybe misunderstood by developers and then the stuff does not match together.

But are you able to have this agile approach in all the projects or just specific ones, because we know sometimes now the clients just want to have fixed price solutions so it needs to be somehow forced the way of communication and the way of changing, change request handling and stuff like that? Are the clients always happy this way?

K: Yeah, I agree with you definitely, more and more clients want fixed prices, of course. Especially, if they are a big organization or something like that. They have the CFO. They have the CEO, COO, CIO, and all those fancy management roles and if they have something that's more dynamic they are always on your shoulder and they start to micromanage you because they think you will go somewhere where they don't want or what they will not be able to explain to the bosses later in the matter of the costs.

So basically what we do then is like, we try to, we ask them to have functional requirement documents. And if they don't, we say to them, that we cannot work with them until we create the functional specification, which we then, bill them.

We do the cost estimation of creating functional documents. And after that, if you don't want to work with us, go wherever you want, I don't care. But I will not invest my time and do something on blind, do some estimation, which will be later like 50% missed. I don't care is it's on me or it's on you, I missed it. I don't like to miss. I like to be realistic. And if we do not understand you we cannot work with you. We want first then to create something, after that we can talk. So that's how I actually prevent those situations to go overpriced or to do some less priced which i should. And after that the thing is pretty much straight forward. We do agile. We like Kanban technique. We are creating sprints. We have like Monday kickoff meetings. After that we have a bunch of tasks which we do and I actually force. I'm forcing clients all the time to be active, because I want them to understand that it's not just guys who are coding there in some black room. It's like allot of brainstorming, allot of discussions, allot of research. You know we are real guys. We are not some guys in front of the computers. We are doing the same way how the guys are building the skyscrapers or cars or whatever, we are just doing the same process in digital way.

So I like to do that and then after each Friday i give the reports. I give allot of weekly reports and that's somehow how i protect myself that he understands that we are delivering. He can always control like pool requests with tasks which are build to him and with my reports, so basically you have like 3 points of synchronization that you can see that we are really transparent company. That we are not just someone that is just sending you bills.

Yeah, if you want to have the CTO, hire it. If you want to do due diligence, that's really not our problem and we are, I'm actually happy to have CTOs on the project of my client because in that particular manner we are actually doing more like collaboration, more like team augmentation and we are like more dedicated to the project.

And that's pretty much how we do. We have allot of tools. I'm the fan of automation and streamlining the process. That's what brings me first when I think about the blockchain and why i started. I like to optimize it and i will use allot of technology stuff to do that. Like ActiveCollab for Kanban. Then I use Slack to integrate all those tools, to have it all comments and everything into the Slack. Slack for me is just like IM - instant messaging portal where we connect the InVision for visual design for the wireframes. Or Figma for designing developers are more agnostic like Adobe and those stuff. So basically what I want to say, that’s how I make the things agile.

So in that particular manner we prevent clients to do any of misjudgment and we also prevent ourselves if we missed a bit maybe the estimation. And if we cannot pay that we at least prevent non communication issues, and we prevent like non understanding, non synchronizing issues and developers are faster. What I got with that after five years of working with my guys, for example my whole mobile team is with me from the beginning. We never - we started and we never split. They are from Serbia. Now I just send them the project. That's it. And I know that the project is doing in the same way how we are always are doing it, because we did allot of things in this 5 years together, that we already have like components, modules, parts of solutions, the whole use cases, experience, what's wrong, what's not. You just tell us the idea; we can create you functional infrastructure, data model and architecture in like 24 hours. And that's actually what also helps us, to be more agile company. I like to call them interim products. Because we are all doing services when you look from the perspective of the outside.

But inside we are actually doing allot of internal products to manage all those applications and stuff in a manner of seconds. That product which I mentioned in Beyondi that we are developing for managing infrastructure on blockchain; you know how I'm actually agile in blockchain for example? I figured out that most of issues we have in most of overbilled – non billable hours are created upon mistakes in configurations of Docker container, wrong cryptographic material, you just forgot to run them again once you drop the network etc. Wrong path in a smart contract etc. You know – the child illness when you are developing with technology like blockchain because it's not hard. It has allot of files. It has allot of configuration, allot of infrastructure in beneath and if you miss something, you just need to wait 2 or 3 minutes to it to be deployed and then you will see, aaa. I missed the path. And then ok, bring it down, let's do it again, you know. And it's really kicking you in the brain.

I actually started with - ok I will now create my own generator, I don't want to mess with that anymore. I don't like to do that. And that's how actually we started. We created; I created internally the whole generator where you can like in 2 minutes run any blockchain organization on Hyperledger Fabric. Setup the peers, setup the nodes, orders, install them. You will get the Docker files. You will get the cryptographic material, connection profiles, API, everything setup and running. And I saved like 80 hours.

We will bill that, because that's my price. I don't care if I have that. I can just give you the word that we will be faster than usual company, but you will need to pay that. Because it's like 2 years of experience set in that 2 minute process to get you the network up and running in just 2 minutes. But you know what's the thing? We didn't invest 80 hours. So we have a pool of 80 hours if we miss some other functionality, we can use that hours to do it and we will not lose the money and client will not lose the functionality. So that' how I actually try to stay agile. I try to remove bad stuff from the development process. Repeating stuff. And then use that hours to stay in profit which I plan and also to use it when we didn't maybe understand client very well or whatever, to address the certain issue.

R: Great. That's a great way of doing it. Of course if you are working on solutions where everything is repeating. Not everything, but some parts are repeating, then of course the automation is of course needed. You have already explained about some of the projects that you had, but what are maybe the most interesting projects or parts or maybe just the lessons you took from some of them?

K: Ok. So basically what I learned and what people do not understand, and I will use this interview as an opportunity. Blockchain. Private permissioned blockchain, so distributed ledgers like Hyperledger, Corda etc., and Ethereum version Hyperledger bestsword, whatever kind of software. If not used for cryptocurrencies and for finances, will have allot of issues in changing the business rules. To explain that. Once when you have a business process which is manageable by multiple participants and which is regulated by multiple sources of law-ex or whatever, you cannot put the logic into smart contracts and expect it to be up and running 95% of the time as the most software needs to be if we are talking about enterprise. You know Microsoft is always telling you, we are up and running 99% of your time. Don't worry about it. Yeah, that's really important. Why it's not possible when you're doing it in blockhain? Because you will need to update all the time the smart contracts. You will need to update other participants. Take care that they are doing update of their own nodes etc. Just to change the functionality, because i don't know: low category A is not now A, it's B. You need to change that if you want to be compliant, because that is no point to do that.

So why is that not too good? Because blockchain is not meant so much for logic. That's at least my lesson for now. Maybe in future it will change. Blockchain is the trusted source of information. So all the business rules on a blockchain needs to be controlled by rule based engines. That's how I see it. Only rule based engines will make blockchain dynamic in a process handling and disrupting the process in a real way. Because, if you; and I have already some proof of concept of what we did, and actually to be honest that's my biggest focus right now. To combine rules engines in a decentralized way with the blockchain. So why doing that is because like I said: If you have the smart contracts who will just control the rules and you will just sync the message from your information system with that rule engine through the blockchain and orchestrate it to all other participants you made it good. But if the whole logic is set in the smart contract we are not so scalable for future changes. With rule based engine, you just change the row, and all you need to know is that the rest let' say the last rule revision hash is same with yours and same with others. That's the biggest lesson at the moment which I learned from the blockchain and it's not a new thing, because you already have some things, articles about it, researches etc, but people do not understand that. People do not talk about it. Blockchain is not just using the smart contracts and creating the logic.

Yes you can do that if it's for the particular case. Releasing the tokens and I don't know, collecting the tokens or whatever, but somewhere where you have so dynamic business policies in each participant organization, because you need to be aware. You need to have a local knowledge, you have a global knowledge. Local knowledge is something what you will not share with someone global knowledge, you will. You need to handle all those connections between everybody involved and that's the problem in doing it with smart contracts.

In a manner of the project directly what we learned. We actually think that the blockchain is the number one. Number one strategy for web 3.0, for semantic web. There is at the moment I don't see anything what can be competitive to that. We did allot of IOT blockchain based projects and I must say that I don't see the smart cities without blockchain. I would not like to live in a smart city which is operated by private company. That has no point in consuming the data, because smart city is all about citizen consuming the right data. Not just citizen giving you the data, so you can harvest it and earn on it. That's what they are doing right now over the social media. I don't want social media in real life you know. That's also, and like I said: I think that sharing economy like Uber, Airbnb etc., is just a tip of the iceberg of what it will be once when we get the whole blockchain up and running. I think that will be the real connected web then and everybody will have better understanding of it. For example look the covid situation.

You have the hospitals who are private, and you have the public hospitals and I can guarantee that in this particular time you have respiratory machines for which they do not know where they are. Blockchain can solve those kinds of things. For example if you are in one town in a need for 50 respiratory machines, but on the other side you don't need them, you will know over the blockchain, because you can create settlements between and put it on the network for real use.

To summarize, how we got all this achievements. All this learning is because of the R&Ds. I read allot of PHD on a collaboration. Not just the blockchain, but business collaboration - PHD researches. I read allot about IOT PHD researches. We did 2 IOT projects for the blockchain. One of them will be funded by European Union. I'm doing the research with my faculty on the smart stickers for supply chain tracing. We are doing allot of internal pilots. I have great partners from the company Base58. They are for me number 1 in a manner of knowledge etc, also based in Osijek. So i learned allot from them. I learned allot from them. We also have allot of knowledge from the agriculture, because there is a great team in Croatia doing fantastic work here for the blockchain in the Croatian ministry of agriculture. That's actually really huge project which we did and we are playing all the time with fingerprinting the documents etc. But like I said. Blockchain is all about at the moment about R&D. I don't care if that projects will go live. I'm doing pilots for them. I'm doing proof of concept for them. Because it's sustainable amount of money coming all the time into the company. But you know what's the biggest deal?

The biggest deal is that we are gathering allot, allot of knowledge and we will be ready in the next 2 or 3 years to strike some really, really good production-ready project. Because we are now in proof of concept era of blockchain. It's not even started you know. There is always time to monetize it.

R: Yeah, definitely. If I understand correctly you are mostly focused on let's say projects that require some level of privacy. But where do you see the main benefit in supporting business processes in enterprises with blockchain? Are all the processes suitable for that type of use and maybe also what are then the costs? Let's say additional costs for the enterprise to use the blockchain project?

K: So basically, you know how I see? To use a blockchain in your own company it makes sense if you are like multi, lets say multi tenant company with allot of affiliations etc and you want to reach all of that.

Most of the projects where I see the real use cases of the blockchain are interdependent business processes. That's where all the headache start. Because of the synchronization. Because of the multiple sequences which we have doing that particular business process etc., and that's where I see the blockchain. And in most situations what they want? They do not want privacy. You know what they want? They want to have real understanding of the source of information. Privacy if you like from the blockchain perspective, you will have your own privacy if you don't share the data in a centralized way. You always can choose not to share data and be private. But what most of enterprises are scared about? What when I start sharing my data? Do they have ability to enter my system? Hack me? How will I integrate with my... for example, imagine that you are owning some .. Imagine that you are owning some soda company where you need to sell allot of... in 35 countries and you have like 100 logistic providers and that you need to integrate with all of them just to share them the information about delivery package. That's not gona do it, because 100 integrations with their software’s are like 100 attack possibilities. What they want? They want just to share the information in 1 way and just to be sure that it will come to the right place. That's how, of course on secure, private and all those requirements which blockchain by itelf is already providing to you. That's where the enterprises should be focused.

I think that, of course there are not all processes which you can disrupt with the blockchain because we are not interconnected in any manner. It depends. The processes who needs: Do you govern the process by multiple participants? Is truth created by multiple participants? and do we have a common goal in a manner of profit to work together? Those 3 answers are pretty much great starting point to understand do we need the blockchain in this process or not.?

And you know where is the tipping point? When they understand that the costs of not doing are bigger than the costs of implementing it. That's the real deal. For example in a Stuttgart Hackaton which I mentioned before, we actually addressed pretty interesting use case and i think that can be done. So if anyone is looking at this feel free to develop that solution and idea and contact me. I will be glad to help you. The thing was about, directed from the European Union, about transporting the dangerous goods through the European Union. So there is allot of acts about transport and what's dangerous goods. Everything what can be used, for example chemicals, batteries, weapons, or what can be a point of the attack, terrorist attacks. So all that is considered as dangerous goods. What in that particular manner, what you need to do?

You have procedures if something goes wrong, what you need to do. And there is one sentence in that directive. Only the person who is doing the transport is able to use the information written on the paper and deliver it to the right office. Compliance office, police department or whatever. So basically what they are telling you is that data needs to be shared on a private way. On a private permissioned way. So what I actually understand from that is that we already have the laws and everything settled to be deployed on the blockchain and we just need to start looking for them and developing it. And that's actually pretty interesting case for dangerous goods, because you can put IOTs there for example. You can put like rule based procedures. You can understand the routes, the GPS of it etc. And you know what? What's even more interesting? that in that particular manner you could maybe lower the human trafficking, because most of the humans are trafficked through the trucks. And that's where actually the secondary value of it. So that's how I see actually how you can use the blockchains for the projects and for the enterprises or for the whatever situation. You just need to find the case where there are those 3 points which I mentioned, and if you address that, yes you will be able. For transport for dangerous goods you cannot do the ROI. You know? You cannot do the ROI calculation, but I'm glad that we cannot do, because that means that someone already did allot of bad things with transportation and we know what are the costs of that transport. But I'm pretty, pretty sure that in a manner of security, in a manner of let's say; we are obligated to do that. We need to trace that kind of movements, because they are dangerous by its nature. You know, they are stated as dangerous.

So that's the point where I think that costs are a lot less than implementation costs and future revenue and future models of doing it over the blockchain.

R: Yes good. This is very valuable information. Do you use in your projects always Hyperledger Fabric or do you use also, work also on public blockchain solutions?

K: In most situations, we use Hyperledger Fabric because I think that Hyperledger Fabric will be number 1 for the next 2 or 3 years and I wanted to be specialized in that, but we also did for example that project where we are doing crypto wallet for them. It will be public crypto wallet like a Bitcoin wallet, just for another chain and it's working completely with the QT protocol and we did like HD deterministic wallet creation. Completely for the public blockchain. So basically whatever kind of blockchain project needs the wallet which is based on that particular standard, BIP; It's BIP standard which you can find online on git-hub, we can do that for them. We never developed like public blockchain infrastructure, but yes, we work with them. We work with them definitely. And 100% of the projects where we are developing the structure we are doing on the Hyperledger Fabric.

R: Great. So thank you for all this info and maybe just for the end, a final thought about what participants can expect from your site on the Blockchainsation?

K: Ok. So definitely one great, great discussion. I'm the guy who like to, I'm the guy who likes to do allot of interactions with public and I like to always strike the point. I'm not the guy who will talk about my company and what we did. I will definitely address and challenge the people in the audience to talk and discuss about the blockchain itself and how we can use that great technology now, to prepare it for the future which is coming. Definitely from the fields of web 3.0, industry 4.0, automation between machines, disrupting the business processes, models of disruptions, how to work with them etc. So that will be definitely my area of what I will speak on the Blockchainsation and until then I hope I will have all this projects which I started and developing at the moment and waiting to be developed, that they will be done, so that we will have even more knowledge and experience and understanding in other fields of the blockchain and where we can use it, so that I can add that to my speech. So I think it will be definitely great. Not like. I will do like a bit TEDex. I like to do it that way. So that's actually the model how I like to explain the stuff to the audience.

R: Well that's really great. I can hardly wait for your presentation. So thank you for all this great information. I definitely expect allot of interest in your speech and also in the area around it, after the speech. I wish that all this projects that you are now planning, to be successful and a lot of happy customers. So yeah. thank you for this interview and everything you have shared with us and I wish to welcome everyone to join us at Blockchainsation, so reserve your time from 14th 'til 16th of May 2021. reserve your spot. I know it will be worth it. So thank you Kristijan. Maybe just a final word from you?

 K: Thank you Roman and definitely I invite everybody to come to the Blockchainsation because I think it will be great. Great conference and definitely we need more of that in our region because our region is really, really good. We have high-quality people here. We have a lot of let's say stuff to show. Allot of great companies and we all need to be together and that's why we need to support things like that and come to the Blockchainsation and any other conference in the future because the blockchain field is small and we need all to take care of it until it becomes bigger and a place where everybody will be able to work.

R: Thank you, and thanks to everyone for watching us and see you in Laško Slovenia in May 2021. Thank you!